[OpenWireless Tech] On VPNs

["Andy Green (林安廸)"]

On 07/28/2011 09:43 PM, Somebody in the thread at some point said:
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 3:28 PM, "Andy Green (林安廸)"<andy at warmcat.com>  wrote:
>> That's just FUD.
>
> How is this Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt? I think it's a core
> inconsistency with the discussion. No one has proven that there is
> liability for hotspot operators, or that intentionally blinding
> yourself to the traffic reduces that liability.

"Are you a laywer" is FUD.  I am off to bed so I don't have time to 
collect links to all the stories in the news about people getting 
attacked by RIAA and others based entirely on their IP appearing in 
logs.  Not only is that factual but it is very widely understood and 
feared by AP owners as well.

>> Well this will be the third or fourth time I proposed that home routers
>> provide VPN service on the WAN side literally "for free" since it's part of
>> the router firmware then, and in a massively distributed way since it would
>> just be another router firmware feature.  So, the user connects to his own
>> home router as VPN server.
>
> And this is the second time I've told you that not everyone has a home
> router, or even a home broadband Internet connection. I'm glad that
> you are fortunate enough to have both, I'd be willing to bet that the
> majority of open wireless users don't.

That's fine but you know close to 99.9% of APs I see now in the UK are 
locked up with WPA exactly through the fears of someone else mis-using 
their internet connection.  They will not deploy the solution you're 
suggesting so third parties can use their IP address because that is the 
thing they fear, not that the third parties might be eavesdropped.

>> Waving your hands around is not argumentation.
>>
>> VPNs work securely today on unencrypted WLANs in Starbucks or whatever,
>> without operating at "a lower layer": if you believe that is not true please
>> go ahead and explain why.
>
> I think I have already, but here goes..
>
> * Because most people don't have VPN
> * Because most people can't set up VPN
> * Because VPN doesn't provide adequate protection
> * Because VPN just moves the problem elsewhere
> * Because a VPN solution is economically unfeasible

I'm pretty sure it does work in Starbucks as written, since that's what 
I do ^^  It's adequate enough for me and a large number of other VPN 
users so...  I'm also certain where I live >80% of the people will have 
home internet ADSL or cable, or a 3G mobile solution that makes all this 
moot for them.

-Andy