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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Thursday 10 August 2017 09:13 AM,
parminder wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:5045e778-d7aa-8723-c7fb-1006e060f5bf@itforchange.net">
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<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Wednesday 09 August 2017 02:09 PM,
William Drake wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:F25D7EE7-CFFE-4D68-AC09-2C17851EF299@gmail.com">
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charset=utf-8">
Hi Parminder
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Long time no talk, hope you’re well. <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Hi Bill, thanks I am well. Hope you too are.<br>
<br>
Thanks for your references they provide useful background.
However, my short answer to your response is; these agreements are
decades old, and data economy is what 4-5 years in the making yet.
Terms like information and data have taken very different meanings
in what was negotiated at that time, and what is being talked
about right now. Information in these earlier documents is largely
private, uncontested about its ownership, and a subsidiary
resource to whatever are the main businesses. Today, a big issue
is data collected from people, whose ownership and protections are
contested, and data (and the digital intelligence derived from it)
is the almost the most important resource around. So, it is
different now. Which is why there are currently big issues around
the "free flow of data" part in global trade forums. You mentioned
India's position, I think even they are ambivalent although their
"global back-office" IT business and the emerging strength in
"software as a service" sector requires that data flows are not
required.</blockquote>
<br>
mistype: ...requires that data flows are not "constrained".<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:5045e778-d7aa-8723-c7fb-1006e060f5bf@itforchange.net">
However, in all these cases the concerned data is clearly of the
concerned principal enterprise (which either outsources IT based
operations, or subscribed to SaaS services) which is a very
different category form transporting public data collected over
various platforms in the platform economy. <br>
<br>
<br>
Ok, let me quote from yesterday's newspaper. Patil was the
official data scientist to the Obama's White House.<br>
<br>
<style type="text/css">p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; }a:link { }</style>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p style="font-variant: normal; font-style: normal;
font-weight: normal; line-height: 0.42cm; orphans: 1"
align="left"> <font color="#282828"><font face="TundraWeb,
serif"><font style="font-size: 13pt" size="4">Mr. Patil
responded by saying that there is a darker force, as
there are companies which are calculating and sitting
on data that one never gave them the right to capture.
These include satellite images, copying records of the
court cases and they are selling it to a creditor, or
somebody else and one has no recourse and ability to
know that the data was moved, he said. “This is where
I would love to be a very strong policy. India has a
great opportunity to learn from things that we didn't
do correctly,” said Mr. Patil.</font></font></font></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
In the same report, Nandan Nilekani, a founder of India's most
famous IT company Infosys said;<br>
<br>
<style type="text/css">p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; }a:link { }</style>
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<p style="font-variant: normal; font-style: normal;
font-weight: normal; line-height: 0.42cm; orphans: 1"
align="left"> <font color="#282828"><font face="TundraWeb,
serif"><font style="font-size: 13pt" size="4">Mr.
Nilekani agreed with the need for policy and gave the
example of increasing amount of data and how it is
being aggregated in areas like platforms which is
actually a big risk. “You end up with data monopoly,”
he said. “I am deeply concerned that data is going to
create a new set of monopolies and whole new model of
colonisation.”</font></font></font></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
Does this look to you like talks about some straight forward free
flow of information? Not to me. It is much more complex, and
different from traditional notions of information flows.<br>
<br>
regards<br>
<br>
parminder<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:F25D7EE7-CFFE-4D68-AC09-2C17851EF299@gmail.com">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I gather this group will not be able to say
anything on a consensus basis regarding CBDF, so ok. But I’d
still like to understand how you’re interpreting existing
international law.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Aug 9, 2017, at 06:03, parminder <<a
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">parminder@itforchange.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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charset=utf-8" class="">
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<p class=""><font class="" face="Verdana">Thanks for
this Jeremy</font></p>
<p class=""><font class="" face="Verdana">Can we work
on the doc without the preamble part, with which
my organisation may have many issues?</font></p>
<p class=""><font class="" face="Verdana">There are
two main ones. One with the sentence "</font><b
style="font-weight:normal;"
id="docs-internal-guid-e5cea2fe-c51e-10b0-a6fe-0d62caba0d3d"
class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Source Code Pro';color:#424242;background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;" class="">International trade agreements that support the free flow of information across the Internet...... </span></b><b
style="font-weight:normal;"
id="docs-internal-guid-e5cea2fe-c520-d076-520e-3577d399b54c"
class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Source Code Pro';color:#424242;background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;" class="">can assist member countries to harness the potential of the Internet to promote social and economic development for all."</span></b></p>
I am sure you know the problem that trade justice
activists have with this.... Trade agreements do not
deal with "free flow of information", if anything they
deal with "free flow of data”. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>The GATS Telecom Annex commits all signatories as
follows: "Each Member shall ensure that service suppliers
of any other Member may use public
telecommunications transport networks and services for
the movement of information within and across borders,
including for intra-corporate communications of such
service suppliers, and for access to information contained
in data bases or otherwise stored in machine-readable form
in the territory of any Member.” Moreover, most countries
made fairly unlimited commitments during the Uruguay Round
on Computer and Related Services (CPC 84) except on Mode
4. That includes e.g. software, programming, data
processing, database etc. services. (FWIW, in the Doha
Round India has advocated full market access and national
treatment commitments in the sector, including of course
Mode 4). UR commitments were also pretty strong on the
relevant Telecom Services (CPC 75) including e.g. online
information and data base retrieval, on-line information
and/or data processing (incl. transaction processing),
etc. TPP 11 is of course more expansive and specific,
including re: data. So what kinds of “information” flow
do you think is excluded from trade agreements?</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">The two
are not identical .... Free flow of information
globally may perhaps be a subject dealt in frameworks
like New World Information and Communication Order
(NWICO, that piece of history!), it could be about
media, even about social media and networks, but that
is not at the core of digital issues at trade talks.
The latter deal not with information flows but with
data flows-- as an economic resource, as one of the
most important economic resources. And speaking about,
rather promoting, "free global flow of data" in an
unqualified manner is not acceptable. It speaks to a
certain political economy of data and digital
economy... you sure know this stuff. <br class="">
<br class="">
Second issue is with promotion of so called
"multi-stakeholder governance" for global trade
negotiations. We have really never been able to
understand what exactly this term means, and you know
this well too, have issues with how many people and
groups employ it in the IG space. We do not look
forward, for instance, to promote models in trade
negotiations where big business has a veto. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
If you mean direct participation in decision making, I don’t
think you have anything to worry about there :-)</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">Replace
it is "multistakeholder participation" and we are
fine...<br class="">
<br class="">
happy to discuss this further .... parminder <br
class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
Thanks</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Bill<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> <br
class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Wednesday 09 August
2017 03:31 AM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a960bf05-416b-4df9-204f-2ed892ba951c@eff.org"
class="">
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As we look forward to the upcoming IGF in December,
I am following up (finally) about one of the outputs
that we agreed to work towards for presentation at
the inaugural meeting of the Dynamic Coalition on
Trade and the Internet. As explained in my original
message, a small working group has put together a
document, which is now ready for comments from this
broader group. You can find it below:<br class="">
<br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Cu2p-gUdAUbPJrHysjWAFQ0SM-CKWabf22D6PGXAgxo/edit#"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Cu2p-gUdAUbPJrHysjWAFQ0SM-CKWabf22D6PGXAgxo/edit#</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
It remains just a draft, and I would like to invite
all of you to express any comments that you may have
on it, either by adding them in the text, or by
following up to this message. Ideally, this should
be a document that all participants in the Dynamic
Coalition can endorse—and I don't think anyone
should have trouble in doing so, since it restates
principles that I suspect we all share, and
references many familiar sources.<br class="">
<br class="">
Please review the document this month so that, if
possible, we can iron out any wrinkles and have a
near-final document ready for presentation as an
output of our Dynamic Coalition at its inaugural
meeting in December.<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/5/17 12:21 pm,
Jeremy Malcolm wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:7eb102c2-667d-8a18-b42f-f10bbd3a1901@eff.org"
class="">
<meta http-equiv="content-type"
content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
Dear all,<br class="">
<br class="">
Today my organization the EFF has launched an
advertising campaign around trade transparency
reforms, which I would like to propose as a
starting point for a document that this Dynamic
Coalition could produce as an output this year.<br
class="">
<br class="">
The advertisements can be seen in POLITICO's
Morning Trade newsletter at <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.politico.com/tipsheets/morning-trade/2017/05/nafta-notification-whats-happening-and-when-220315"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.politico.com/tipsheets/morning-trade/2017/05/nafta-notification-whats-happening-and-when-220315</a>
(you might need to disable your ad blocker to see
the banners, but there are also text messages in
the middle and at the end of the newsletter). The
ads link to this page on EFF's website which
summarizes five recommendations, and the
rationales for these: <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.eff.org/trade"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.eff.org/trade</a>.<br
class="">
<br class="">
The campaign is targetted at U.S. trade
policymakers and is hence very U.S.-centric (even
to the point of sounding a little jingoistic), and
a couple of the recommendations are specific to
the U.S. trade advisory process. Nevertheless, I
believe that the core concepts should find broad
agreement amongst members of this Dynamic
Coalition and that we ought to be able to fashion
a consensus document that at least finds
inspiration from the five recommendations made
here.<br class="">
<br class="">
I won't repeat the complete rationales for the
recommendations here because you can read them for
yourselves at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.eff.org/trade"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.eff.org/trade</a>,
but the headlines are:<br class="">
<ol class="">
<li class="">Publish U.S. textual proposals on
rules in ongoing international trade
negotiations</li>
<li class="">Publish consolidated texts after
each round of ongoing negotiations</li>
<li class="">Appoint a "transparency officer"
who does not have structural conflicts of
interest in promoting transparency at the
agency</li>
<li class="">Open up textual proposals to a
notice and comment and public hearing process</li>
<li class="">Make Trade Advisory Committees more
broadly inclusive<br class="">
</li>
</ol>
One of the items in this Dynamic Coalition's 2017
action plan is "To develop a multi-stakeholder
approach to facilitating the transparency and
inclusiveness in international trade negotiations
and the domestic consultation processes".
Although that's open-ended, it could include the
development of a consensus document containing a
set of principles that generalises from the above
five recommendations, and that's what I'm
proposing. At this point, I am asking for your
feedback on the idea.<br class="">
<br class="">
If there is broad agreement on the idea, the next
step would be to form a drafting subcommittee that
would propose a strawman text for further
discussion by the full Dynamic Coalition. If you
support the idea of us developing such a document,
are you also interested in being part of the
drafting subcommittee?<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks and I look forward to hearing your thoughts
on the above.<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Jeremy Malcolm
Senior Global Policy Analyst
Electronic Frontier Foundation
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://eff.org/" moz-do-not-send="true">https://eff.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jmalcolm@eff.org</a>
Tel: 415.436.9333 ext 161
:: Defending Your Rights in the Digital World ::
Public key: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.eff.org/files/2016/11/27/key_jmalcolm.txt" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.eff.org/files/2016/11/27/key_jmalcolm.txt</a>
PGP fingerprint: 75D2 4C0D 35EA EA2F 8CA8 8F79 4911 EC4A EDDF 1122</pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Jeremy Malcolm
Senior Global Policy Analyst
Electronic Frontier Foundation
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://eff.org/" moz-do-not-send="true">https://eff.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jmalcolm@eff.org</a>
Tel: 415.436.9333 ext 161
:: Defending Your Rights in the Digital World ::
Public key: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.eff.org/files/2016/11/27/key_jmalcolm.txt" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.eff.org/files/2016/11/27/key_jmalcolm.txt</a>
PGP fingerprint: 75D2 4C0D 35EA EA2F 8CA8 8F79 4911 EC4A EDDF 1122</pre>
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class=""><br class="">
***********************************************<br class="">
William J. Drake<br class="">
International Fellow & Lecturer<br
class="">
Media Change & Innovation
Division, IPMZ<br class="">
University of Zurich, Switzerland<br
class="">
<a href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">william.drake@uzh.ch</a> (direct), <a
href="mailto:wjdrake@gmail.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">wjdrake@gmail.com</a> (lists),<br
class="">
<a href="http://www.williamdrake.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.williamdrake.org</a><br
class="">
************************************************<br class="">
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